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Atlanta PERM Discussion Forum
NOV-07 PERM AUDIT Cases |
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Good News! My lawyer said that DOL has begun processing Nov-07 PD PERM audit case!
Can NOV-07 awaiting TrackIt community memebers check with their lawyer and help confirming the same?
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to HOPEDB:
He told you because DOL released the info or some of his clients got approved?
Try to be objective and accurate so the rest of us won't feel too exited or depressed.
But I really hope what you said is true...
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to virginia2008:
My opinion is that even if they do start some November cases, they didn' even celar half of October audits, so... no one is going anywhere just yet! Except a few lucky ones... Patience frinds....
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to VivaNY:
That could be true.
This makes me nervous as I am one of the Nov 07 cases. I hope I don't get denied.
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My PERM is from beginning of OCT 07 and I'm still waiting....
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to sylkol:
Any one? Any updated?
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to HOPEDB:
Seems endless wait for Oct'07 to Dec'07 audit cases. It's been almost a months no movement.
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to mkaperm:
Checking - in if any NOV-07 AUDITED case is approved.....any one?
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to HOPEDB:
My PD is 6th Nov 2007, still no updates.
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mine is OCT07 and still no news.
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to sylkol:
my case is on 11 Nov.2007
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to chrskumar:
Mine is 8th Nov 2007. No update
I checked with my employer few days back and it still shows in progress
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Here's a prediction for you:
We should start seeing Nov 07 audit cases getting decisions in the next 2-3 weeks...
Here's some data for the ones that are interested:
# of audit cases for Dec 07 in trackitt = 95 (all pending) - avg days = 642 min= 627 max= 657
# of audit cases for Nov 07 in trackitt = 80 (all pending) - avg days = 672 min= 658 max= 687
# of audit cases for Oct 07 in trackitt = 100
decisions = 44 (44%) - 29 apprvd (66%), 15 denied (34%) - avg days=628 min=577 max=701
pending = 56 (56%) - avg days = 701 min= 688 max= 718
# of audit cases for Sep 07 in trackitt = 84
decisions = 66 (79%) - 48 apprvd (73%), 18 denied (27%) - avg days= 589 min= 527 max= 723
pending = 18 (21%) - avg days = 731 min= 722 max= 745
# of audit cases for Aug 07 in trackitt = 51
decisions = 40 (79%) - 31 apprvd (78%), 9 denied (22%) - avg days=438 min=183 max=748
pending = 11 (21%) - avg days=762 min=753 max=771
# of audit cases for July 07 in trackitt = 46
decisions = 41 (89%) - 32 apprvd (78%), 9 denied (22%) - avg days=388 min=109 max=809
pending = 5 (11%) - avg days=793 min=780 max=808
As you can see, the average days to reach a decision is clearly upward trending. But I think, DOL moves to the next month with about 60-65% of the current months cases decided on. With the current rate of decisions, I predict that the Nov 07 will start in the next 2-3 weeks.
Heck, I even dare to predict that the audited cases of 2007 will be completed by Dec 31, 2009! In case you haven't noticed, I'm a Dec 12, 07 PD... :)
Take care all, the wait is long but hopefuly we're almost there.... hang tight!
Cheers.
After all this wait (646 days as of today), I remain optimistic :)
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to rainmaker:
rainmaker,
I agree with most of your analysis. I think though that November 2007 will only begin ~mid-November 2009. December 2007 is harder for me to predict because DOL seems to work on audit cases in spurts. October 2007 audit cases started coming through in ~April 2009. Its now September 2009 and we are still only 46% through October 2007. There was a slowdown and a lull over the summer especially July & early August when there almost 0 cases cleared (audit or otherwise). I think with Thanksgiving and Christmas, DOL will likely slowdown their workrate once more.
Anyway, we are seeing ~3 audit cases either denied or approved from October 2007 each week. I think it will take another 5 weeks (15 more October 2007 cases @ 3 cases/week) to get to ~60% completion for October 2007. At this point the DOL can "FIFO" into November 2007. Right now August 2007 and September 2007 audits are both 80% cleared (denied or approved).
I would love to get some understanding of the appeals queue as the denial rate has gone from 22% for August 2007, to 25% for September 2007 to 35% for October 2007. The denial reasons seem fairly inocuous (according to me anyway). At this rate November and December will likely be at 40% - 50% denial rate... I say this because 16 of the denials (4 September 2007 and 12 October 2007) were in made last month and this month.
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to robbass32:
Hi
You can check this link
http://icert.doleta.gov/
This link shows what cases the DOL is currently processing. Cases with Audits, Regular PERM and Cases with appeals. Just click on the "PERM PROCESSING TIMES" below the Login button and you will get the status.
I am not sure if this is for Atlanta or Chicago center but I believe the center doesn't matter
Hope this helps
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to merakyahoga:
The processing time is as of 07/31/09. It has not been updated since then.
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to rainmaker:
Rainmaker or Mr. Optimistic,
I am 20-Nov-07; can you extend your analysis to get us a date for EAD and finally getting GC in hand? We can easily assume that immigration reform is far from even dreaming for this analysis.
Hoping to see your response; I am almost broke and at the edge of giving it up to move on.
Thanks,
HOPEDB
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The processing time is as of 07/31/09. It has not been updated since then.
to toofanusa:
Actually, they just updated it to (as of 09/30/2009), although the only change was on Final Reviews (12/2008) and Standard Appels (08/2007); Audits still at 10/2007 (which is the same as the 'official' position as of 06/30). |
I just got some information from the immigration dept of my employer (one of world's largest corporations). For more than 1 year they have been telling me that my application is not in audit (and that it had gone only into Fragomen special audit and had come out) and they have been trying to assure me that waiting in process without audit for over 1 year was very normal... But after I pushed and pushed and pushed now they are telling me that they just learned from DOL that my application is actually in audit. But they are telling me that it is a better type of audit... whatever that means I have no idea. I got this comment from the immigration person, can anyone decipher it?
".....DOL is considering your case in audit review because the DOL also requested a copy of the job order placed with the DOL local office. This is a recruitment method that is part of the normal PERM labor market test. Again, because this is not a full fledged business necessity audit, Fragomen was hoping to learn that your case was not part of audit review. As I mentioned the positive side of this is we may avoid the typical lengthy audits people with finance jobs are receiving......"
This is insane!
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to uplange:
hahahahhaha - attorneys are definitely worthy of the ridiculous fees they charge. They probably employ other people known for their creativity in writing emails / letters..
Such flowing language, such ease in understanding:))
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to robbass32:
Looks like we are on track to begin November 2007 in the next 4 - 5 weeks.
We will also see a lot rejections ~60% rejection rate if October is anything to go by. The DOL is being very very strict at the moment. Perhaps if we start to see jobs being added to the economy they will relax their rules s little.
Has anyone succesfully appealed a denial? It would help to see how the process worked.
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to robbass32:
Seriously, this reminds me of a movie 'The Island' in which the people are released from the island (guess how? through a lottery system :-)), only to get killed immediately after they are released.
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to robbass32:
Trackiit still shows 58 Oct'07 audited cases still awaiting a decision. There might be some amongst them which may have not been updated and a lot other cases (audited and awaiting descision) which have not made it to trackitt. So assuming they cancel each other out, and DOL comes out with a decision for 1 audited case/work day, we are still looking at 58 days, which roughly evaluates to 12 weeks (3 months). Does not sound too good, but the way DOL has been treating all audited cases like a step-child, I will not be surprised if it takes even longer.
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to gummybear:
Yes, I think the reported audit rate on trackit is 1 case/day. I also think you may be right, when you say there could be another 12 weeks before we see November.
I think our 12 week wait is more about Thanksgiving and Christmas resulting in reduced clearance rates for audit cases though. Last year, October - December was really bad for DOL. The slow clearance rate affected both audits and non-audits. At that time we thought the DOL would clear our cases pretty quickly.
Anyway, if you look at how DOL results have shown themselves on trackitt in the past, we usually see the next month's approvals/denials coming through when approximately 60% of the previous month is done. For example take a look at November 2008, the month is about 60% done and DOL has already started December 2008. The same was true for when October 2007 cases were started back in April 2009 (yes it has taken ~6 months to go through about half of the October 2007 audit cases). In April 2009, September was 60% done. That means we really only need another ~15 cases to show up on trackitt.
Lately, I have also noticed that more and more audited cases from October 2007 are showing up on trackitt. Someone here estimated that ~2% of all DOL cases made it onto Trackitt. The 2% sample has been relatively reliable for tracking progress etc.
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to robbass32:
Looks like we have another 10 working days to go before we start to see some November 2007 action. Not a moment too soon either...
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to robbass32:
U r tooooo optimistic
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to eugenep:
Even if we get PERM approved; when you guys think the GC process will land a card with PD Nov-07? 25 yrs from today?
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to HOPEDB:
Maybe 24.99yrs :). Remember our PD date means we will move ahead of everyone from 2008 and 2009.
Anyway, things are looking pretty good. Trackitt shows that we are about 55% of the way with audit cases (61 audit cases completed out of 111). Assuming that Trackitt mirrors DOL progress and that DOL follows historic trends, we should start seeing November audit case responses as soon as 12 October. If DOL maintains the current rate we should have about ~20 Trackitt cases done by Halloween...
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did you guys realize the 12/11/07 case approved on Oct 1 ?
Is this real? did DOL bypass Nov and already started working on Dec 07 cases?
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to rainmaker:
I don't think the 12//11/2007 case was under audit. Check the comments on the case.
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Got from lawyer firm's web feed.... from two weeks back.
At a meeting with stakeholders this week, the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) announced an expansion of the PERM processing center in Atlanta, which it hopes will lead to a reduction in the current labor certification backlog. At the present time, the Atlanta National Processing Center (NPC) is issuing certifications in non-audited cases that were filed in December of 2008, and audited cases filed in October of 2007. New resources are also being devoted to supervised recruitment processing as the function moves from the DOL national office in Washington to the Atlanta NPC.
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to kidrock:
No approvals since 02-OCT-09 on audit cases. I am afraid that DOL is again taking time away from Audit cases. Thoughts?
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to HOPEDB:
There was a denial issued yesterday. Assuming Trackitt represents a good sample of DOL cases, then the DOL is still on target to begin working on November 2007 audit cases in mid-October.
I would say the greater issue here is the denial rate. Based on what we have seen from the October 2007 cases processed August 2009 - October 2009, the denial rates for November will be ~60%.
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to robbass32:
With all these denials, what are the backup plans you guys are keeping. Like if you are in 5th Year of H1B and and your PERM(2007) is still in process. Are you guys filling another PERM from different company or under different EB catagory from the same company. Please share your ideas and plans.
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to wimax:
i am not sure what to do.I am really scared to see these denials. I have an dec'07 audit LC and my h1 expires jan'2011. i think this is the time if I need to refile or go to other employer for a new perm
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Admittedly, my original prediction of 2-3 weeks as of Sep 18 is up today and we haven't seen any Nov 07 cases come through.
But I really think we're darn close.
Here's some potentially good news:
# of October 07 cases: ~108 (with a very quick glance b/c there are dupes)
# of decisions: 63 now that's %58... also, from Sep 18 (44) to Oct 9 (63), it's a %43 increase.
With that, the denial rate is now %36.5 with 23 denials...
From the standpoint of progress on decisions, these numbers are very encouraging. I think we'll start seeing Nov 07 very soon...
Cheers!
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to rainmaker:
Lately, it seems the DOL has been working more in FIFO mode (especially true if you look at current December 2008 cases that are approved, so we could expect Jan 2009 within 10 days at current pace). For audits, an October 30 was recently approved, so with the same logic, November 2007 cases should come soon. For those who put too much hope or fear in the data, chill out, these are ONLY general trends and there is nothing you can do until DOL adjudicate on your case. Best of luck.
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Hey Guys,
I know this question is completely off in left field, but when do you guys think I will get a response to Perm Audit? My pending date is Oct 2008.
I did not want to create another topic for trackitters to look at.
Thanks
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to DesiInFL:
You are better off withdrawing your application and refiling. Here is why:
1 - At current DOL productivity rates, your case is likely ~2 to 3 years away from adjudication.
2 - DOL is not measured on audit case clearance rates and will likely not make an major changes to the pace at which they work on audit cases. If anything they will likely get slower than the current rate.
3 - Unless your paperwork is prestine, 2 years from now your case will be denied and you will have to start again. We are seeing denial rates of ~60% on audit cases over the last three months.
4 - The appeal process seems to be backlogged as well and could take another 6-12 months (we don't know how long appeals are currently taking - so this is a guess).
5 - Refiling your PERM will take 3 months at most and the DOL is currently working on 9 months turnaround for non-audit cases.
6 - DOL is measured on performance on non-audit cases.
Believe me, you do not want to be here for the next two years running spreadsheets, celebrating every audit case that gets cleared and asking people why their cases were denied...
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to robbass32:
Wow..thanks for such a clear and enlightening advice..but to refile...doesn't it mean that I would have to change jobs?..Can I apply for GC again from my current company?..Considering the state of the market these days..I don't want to be out looking for another job...What do you think?
Thanks
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to DesiInFL:
I don't know what it would take to refile, but a job title change and an addition of responsibilities will likely work as a good reason to refile with your current company. Also maybe a review of the paperwork may show that mistakes were made in the initial filing that need correction etc. Its been ~12 months since you filed your paperwork so a job title change and/or additional responsibilties is probably the way to go. Discuss the options with your HR department and lawyer. You don't have to change employers to refile your case. Again, I am not an expert at this.
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to robbass32:
Just saw someone getting approved and the PD is 30th October 2007. Does this mean November will start soon? Maybe next week or the week later.
Wow this is heartwarming but at the same time scary because you never know who will get approved and whose PERM will get denied.
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to robbass32:
I think your post is unnecessarily gloomy. First, no one can know how long it will take to get the audit reviewed. Today, it is about 600 days after the audit was issued (or 700 days after PD). DOL is finally finishing the mess that was created in the summer of 2007 and it is not completely surprising that a bunch of cases were audited and many also are getting rejected. Moreover, trying to guess what DOL will do is almost impossible, but assuming a linear growth in processing times of audit is probably unrealistic since the current official message coming from DOL (sept09) is pace is to pick up again as we have already observed for the past few weeks. Finally, by suggesting to refile, you completely ignore the realities of the job market. Most people in the PERM queue do not have skills that are that scarce, especially in the current environment. The decision is in my point of view, not as easy and clear cut as you make it sound.
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As I watch, most of denials are based 2 wholes in lawyers work
1. Prevailing or offered is wage higher then in ad
2. No copy of ad was sent to DOL.
It means we are all depend on what lawyers are feeding DOL
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to eugenep:
I am unsure what DOL means by "Prevailing or offered wage higher then in ad" when denying cases.
Does it mean prevailing wage the candidate has today is higher than the wage shown on the ad? Do they expect us not to accept performance raise in two years? That's ridiculous. Hopefully that's not the case because that is calling for a lawsuit for discrimination of foreign nationals especially when they are taking close to two years to make a decision.
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to Matrix:
I think it should be "Prevailing wages is LESS than in the ad". I think it is typo error
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to tacotac:
Tacotac,
We are all entitled to our opinion. I was expressing mine now the person asking has heard yours too. This should lead to a more informed decision.
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to merakyahoga:
Not a typo
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to eugenep:
Any news about the Nov 2007 cases?
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I'm waiting for nov 07 decisions to start coming in. I'm Nov 29th which is almost Dec09. I hope the denial rate goes down for Nov cases, otherwise we r all screwed.
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Users watching this thread:
HOPEDB, sylkol, mkaperm, chrskumar, eugenep, merakyahoga, toofanusa, felipeal, uplange, metheorion, gummybear, nestam, lcdec07, DesiInFL, Matrix, marek12, rajasaab1, wimax, rainmaker, webbee, laybor, tradahoo, yogiman, jiteshks, caca1225, kidrock, sgoel
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